Dr. Keith: Can an 8-Year-Old Be a Murderer?
Police in St. Johns, Ariz., allege that an 8-year-old boy gunned down his father, Vincent Romero, and his father’s co-worker, Timothy Romans, using a .22-calibre rifle. They say the crime was planned and methodically carried out. Prosecutors have not yet announced whether they will seek to try the 8-year-old as an adult.
First things first: Without access to the information that police have at this time, the public should withhold judgment about the veracity of the 8-year-old boy’s confession. False confessions are common enough in traumatized, eager-to-comply adults, let alone kids. Three other children between the ages of 7 and 8 have confessed to murder since 1958; none of them committed the killings.
Assuming that the boy in Arizona is indeed the perpetrator, mental health professionals will have the task of trying to ascertain why he committed two murders. Already, neighbors and friends and school officials have commented that the boy seemed perfectly normal, seemed to have a good relationship with his dad and had no history of violence.
As a forensic psychiatrist I have evaluated many killers and testified about them in court, not to mention treating dozens of very violent people. And I promise you that, if responsible for these murders, there is indeed a psychological explanation why the boy committed them.
Possible explanations include the boy suffering an underlying mental illness causing a delusion (a fixed and false psychotic belief) or hallucinations. Conditions like bipolar disorder, for example, can (in a great minority of cases) trigger paranoia and even voices commanding one to carry out actions that would normally be abhorrent to the afflicted individual. No one has suggested that Romero’s son suffered such a condition, but clinicians will need to rule out the possibility.
If the boy has been under treatment for any psychiatric symptoms with medications, the possibility of a medication side effect has to be explored. Some psychoactive medications can, in rare cases, prompt violence against oneself or others. The same is true, by the way, for some medicines used to treat medical conditions, like asthma.
Even in an 8-year-old, the remote chance that a mind-altering substance could be involved — perhaps belonging to someone else who was present at his school or in his home — has to be excluded. That should be relatively easy to do by taking a detailed history from the boy and testing his blood and urine.
Neurological explanations have to be entertained. An MRI or CT scan of the alleged killer’s brain can tell investigators whether or not pathology like a brain tumor could be responsible. The possibility is small, but can’t be dismissed out of hand. Even an infection of the 8-year-old’s cerebrospinal fluid — the fluid that bathes the spinal cord and the brain—has to be formally eliminated as a possibility.
Chances are, however, that the why for these killings would reside in the emotional pathology of the alleged killer, not his brain pathology. Some trauma or series of traumas, near or far in time, has to have occurred, in order to make this child either desperate enough to kill or cold-blooded enough to kill. In sixteen years practicing psychiatry, I have never met a murderer who was born evil. In every case, I eventually learned the circumstances that extinguished that person’s empathy.
So if this 8-year-old boy is indeed a murderer, the search will be for the roots of his violence. We have only a hint which questions to ask from the news coverage to date. But here are a few: Why was the boy’s father awarded sole custody of him? Why is his mother residing in Mississippi, rather than closer to him? What are the details of the boy’s living arrangement, including the fact that his father had rented out a room in the house to his co-worker?
The truth of this 8-year-old and his alleged violence is knowable. The key to finding it is in asking enough questions and never buying into the myth that killers are born. They are made. And when one is made by age 8, enough bad has happened in eight years to make the unthinkable actually occur.
Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatry correspondent for FOX News Channel and a New York Times bestselling author. His newest book, “Living the Truth: Transform Your Life through the Power of Insight and Honesty” has launched a new self-help movement. Check out Dr. Ablow’s website at livingthetruth.com or e-mail him at info@keithablow.com.
Tags: Arizona, custody, Dr. Keith Ablow, murder, Romero, St. Johns, Timothy Romans, Violence
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I feel that this article is written in a very responsible matter. Dr. Keith Ablow’s remarks are unbiased. So often the media will report these cases and begin to speculate the reasons for the violent behavior of children in America.
As an educator I have seen the influence of video games and violent television and movies first hand. . Unfortunately, many parents do not regulate the content that children are watching. A prime example is a 8 year old girl that I am familiar with that is a regular viewer of True Blood on HBO. This show depicts many violent acts and nudity. Apparently, the parents of this child are not informed enough or choose not to be and allow an 8 year old to watch this program. Of course this may not be the reason for this particular violent act but it could have played a minor ole in this child seeing violence as an answer to whatever was happening in this houshold.
Another possibility is any kind of abuse, including sexual abuse.
Dr. Keith’s remarks sound reasonable. However, MANY children suffer truly horrific events by the time they are 8–myself included. The vast majority never harm anyone or anything. I am sure Dr. Keith has had enormous experience with traumatized children but I have to challenge his claim that no child is born evil. I once knew a boy who was evil from the time he was a small child–he eventually destroyed his entire family, all of whom were exceptionally kind people. It happens.
“In sixteen years practicing psychiatry, I have never met a murderer who was born evil. In every case, I eventually learned the circumstances that extinguished that person’s empathy.”
What about the case of those young boys in England who killed a 2 year old boy? As I recall, an underlying diagnosis or explanation was not found. This takes us back to Voltaire’s dilemna in Candide – are some individuals just inherently evil or is it always that they have been made so?
why would you continue the abuse this chld has suffered by placing him in ankle chains and hand cuffs in a court room. Are you afraid of this 8 yr old? I find this so horrific that an 8 yr old would be brought before a court in ankle chains and handcuffs. You have said that a mental health problem is evident so why worsen the problem? Maybe we just don’t care about our children anymore. To the logical thinking person someone has really made a mistake in this case. Unless those that hold this 8 year old child are pedophiles and want to see him in these chains. Can anyone verify that he is not being sodomized by his holders in his cell? We are a free nation and it is an abomination that this child of 8 is put in this position . Why do we not protect our own children when we know that something is so very wrong. Are we really worried that an 8 yr old small boy will kill again? I encourage all parents that want to hold authority over their children to keep this injustice from happening to sigh the constitutional amendment for parents rights at the web sight parentsrights.org
why is there no answer to the question?
the question was, can an 8yrs old kid be a murderer.
well, anyone who would say yes is an evil person as far as i am concerned.
it is a kid, for heaven’s sake!
he had no idea what he was doing, if he did it, either because of being traumatized, or ill, or most importantly because it is normal for 8 year old kids to not fully understand the idea of death, murder etc etc
what has happened to a society that would try an 8 year old kid as an adult?
Is there anyway way Dr Keith Ablow’s comments could be shared with the defense attorneys taking care of this little boy? they will definitely need this kind of feedback!
What can we do to help this kid?
This article is a great starting point for the discussion regarding treating minors as adults for intents of prosecution. Of course a 17 year old, or a 16 year old, should understand the consequences of their actions – what murder really is. But, what about a 14 year old? A 12 year old? An 8 year old?
The problem, as I see it, is thus: Certainly there has been some trauma to cause this 8 year old to murder his father – if that is truly what happened. But, by the same token, if a 20 year old murders his father, can’t we say the same thing? What about a 40 year old?
The bigger question, then, isn’t “have they experienced some horrible trauma?” No, I would guess that 99% of traumatized children do not go on to be murderers or other violent offenders. They bigger question is why do so many abused children NOT murder or act out violently, and how can we apply that answer to helping those at risk.
Everyone who is so concerned about this child needs to remember that two men are DEAD, apparently at this boy’s hands. I have two children and four grandchildren–all but one are past 8. Believe me, by 8 they understood the consequences of inflicting pain or harm on others. Unless this child is overtly mentally ill, which I suppose he could be, he knew he was doing something very terrible and very permanent. Before we go dishing out all of this good-will pity on this child, let the experts sort out his psyche. And for those out there who are worried, the child WILL have his own attorneys and his own psychiatrists. He will have far more people to speak for him than his father and the other fellow had . . .
“The problem, as I see it, is thus: Certainly there has been some trauma to cause this 8 year old to murder his father – if that is truly what happened. But, by the same token, if a 20 year old murders his father, can’t we say the same thing? What about a 40 year old?”
The difference between a 20 or 40 year-old murder who was traumatized and an 8 year-old is that the 20 or 40 year-old should be old enough to understand the consequences and make the choice to walk away from the abuse. How does an 8 year-old get away from those causing him harm, from those who are supposed to love him?
I see Dr. Keith buys into the discredited Tabula Rasa theory held by Freud. Studies of twins separated at birth have shown the twins form similar values, despite their vastly different upbringings. Dr. Keith is hardly scientific in his opinions, since he allows his work to be clouded by his opinions, and he refuses to acknowledge possible answers outside of his preconceived sphere of ideas. If he testified for this child and gave a testimony based on this article, a good prosecutor would tear him apart on the stand and leave him discredited. Especially, Dr. Keith knows that many murderers “seemed perfectly normal…and had no history of violence”. That statement is mere smoke blowing. Still, one question remains: Would Dr. Keith’s biases be the product of nature or nurture?
I disagree with the statement “no one is born evil”. People are born with schizophrenia. It’s one of the highest genetically inherited diseases. People with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are often involved in violence. This child could have some sort of a mental disorder either inherited or brought on by some unknown past event.
Although it is very likely that the child is covering for someone. Children will believe almost anything they’re told. If you tell them that you will kill them if they don’t do something, they’ll believe it.
I think both the ideals of the child being pursuaded to do it and having done it on his own are very probable.
I’m starting to think there is something wrong with the people in that town. They’re a little too eager to deflect negative attention from the town, the father, and the boyfriend and place it on the boy. Why is the kid being dragged around in shackles? Why is there a gag order from the judge, but the prosecution continues to comment negatively on the boy? From what I understand there’s no physical evidence linking the boy to the crime. All they have is the confession. How is that possible? Also, I’ve seen otherwise good people lie through their teeth when it came to divorce and child custody. Don’t be so quick to believe the father’s allegations against the mother. Plus one thing I learned as a child, you never know what is going on behind closed doors. People who seem saintly can be demons, and people that seem like demons can in fact be near saints. If you don’t like the way this case is being handled
email info@stjohnschamber.com
Most of these comments, not to mention the original article, absolutely reek of “blame the victim.” It is terribly cruel to make innuendoes that this boy was POSSIBLY traumatized, POSSIBLY by his father. There has been NO suggestion that this child was molested or abused otherwise by his father or anyone else. Before more fingers get pointed at a man who is too conveniently DEAD to defend himself, let the lawyers and the prosecutors collect the evidence and present it. Is it THAT difficult?
I appreciate Dr. Ablow’s efforts to educate the community on a child’s capacity for murder. In reviewing other’s responses, I would suggest we distinguish between the physical capacity to hold, aim, and fire a gun (perhaps as modeled, trained, or coerced by others) versus the intent to murder (to kill with the knowledge of permanent death). Developmental variability dramatically affects a child (or adults) capacity for comprehending personal action and willful intent to harm. Unfortunately, even as we learn more about the developing brain, there is a national swing toward prosecuting more children in the adult system that defies this scientific evidence. Some people may be born with a neurologically-based defect in empathy which may impair their capacity to appreciate other’s needs and separateness… but this doesn’t make the child evil. I have worked in child psychiatry for 30 years and treat both children and adults who have committed extremely violent acts (or been charged with them). In one instance, the 4 year old who ‘drowned’ his sister was in fact the victim of horrible physical abuse and neglect, and the ‘confession’ was manipulated by a parent’s partner. Incarcerated offenders often have undiagnosed or untreated psychotic symptoms and/or developmental delays which prevent them being fulling cognizant of their wrong-doing. I regret every life that is taken, every soul is valuable. But our society is also responsible for protecting children and growing them up safely.
Children see & learn MURDER, SEX, and other undesirable on TV all the time. Movies are no better. On the computer there is information on making bombs and poisons.
So, why wouldn’t a child know how to perform a murder or do some other dastardly deed. A child does not realize that the person they are wanting to kill for whatever reason will be gone forever if the act is performed. They do not have a concept of consequences.
Many children are suffering from parents who are alcoholics, druggies, uncontrollable anger of the parent or parent substitute, plus many other undesirable traits. Many do not know for certain who is really their parent.
What is needed is a return to discipline and a CHRISTIAN LIFE. FOCUS ON THE FAMILY has lots of good books and counseling for such a problem. There are many other groups who do a good job also. Putting GOD back in our lives will be a plus.
Something that bothers me about this case–
Read this article: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/america/Child-Charged-Optional.php
It states that the boy’s mother had visited just before the killings. Why haven’t I heard of them going after her, and questioning her? There must be a reason why the father had full custody, and that needs to be found out. Is the mother emotionally unstable maybe? Shouldn’t the investigators be entertaining the possibility that the mother put him up to it? 8-year old children are not that hard to manipulate, and will tend to protect their parents. Maybe I’m way off base, but I find it strange that the child’s mother lives so far away, and yet, just happened to be there right before the murders.
I know a woman that was sexually abused by her mother’s boyfriend for years. When her younger sister got a little older, he started sexually abusing her also. She couldn’t stand to see him doing this to her sister, so she stabbed the boyfriend in his sleep. She was 14 at the time and was sentenced to 26 years in prison. Is this fair? Maybe this boy was experiencing some of the same trauma. Whatever the case, I do not believe that an 8 year old should be tried as an adult. At the age of 8, I believe that a child would certainly know the consequences of such a horrific act. Surely there had to be something that drove him to do this, whether it be a mental illnes, physical abuse, sexual abuse, etc…
Does violence stem from habituation of habitat? Considering that even children are exposed to the images of violent behavior on television and even in the reading material they have available to them, isn’t the theory that young persons are being desensitized toward violence every single time they turn on the television? Most news broadcasts relay the violence in the top of the hour. Television news interrupts normal programming every time something significant happens. Maybe there would be less violence from every age group if there were less promotion form television broadcasters and movie makers. It’s just a thought. So, how can an eight year old be called a murderer? When he/she picks up an implement that can harm someone else and uses that instrument as a weapon, he/she becomes the perpetrator of a homicide if the incident results in death. Therefore, that child is a murderer.
I’ve become convinced that the authorities have no idea how to handle such bizarre cases.
Putting an 8 year old in ankle and wrist shackles is pathetic.
Lest I sound unsympathetic to the authorities – let me say immediately – I AM NOT unsympathetic – I would not want their job for anything in the world.
Let’s face it: our world, our societies are out of control. We really need to turn back to a forgiving Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
This 8 year old Little boy
was Not born evil.
The way the police and prosecutors
are so eager to try him as an adult
now that IS EVIL.
What happened did he not fit into the Mormon cult????
I found it difficult to believe that this child was able to shoot 2 grown men. Was there any evidence of a struggle? I would think a man (no less 2) would make an attempt to take the gun away from a small child. Is there no other suspects? None have been mentioned on the news. I sincerely hope that the child is not being detained unneccessarily if the police have other suspects.
After to listening to the interview, it appears pretty clear that the police are leading the child by saying things like, “What would you say if we told you someone told us you shot them?”. An 8 year old who is frightened, tired, tramatized and ready to end the interview might agree to anything.
Shame on the police who conducted the interview without representation of the child’s relatives, attorney or child psychiatrist. I believe these police officers deserve to be terminated. They obviously are qualified to perform their job in a professional manner.
Jamie McGlaun
Thank you for making a little more sense of the situation. Every since the media broke this story I have been very concerned for this child. I pray that everyone involved will give him the attention he needs to determine what really happened and why.
Anyone who doesn’t believe an 8 year old is capable of murder needs to talk to a Vietnam veteran. They will tell you exactly what a little kid with a gun is capable of.