MacKenzie Phillips: Victim or Victimizer?
Actress MacKenzie Phillips has accused her deceased father John Phillips, famous as the lead singer of The Mamas and the Papas, of having a “consensual” sexual relationship with her. She says it began when he raped her while she was semi-conscious and drugged at age 19 and continued for 10 years. She also says she hopes her revelations will help other survivors of incest.
I applaud incest survivors and rape victims who come forward to share their stories because I believe that human empathy is the most powerful force in the universe. The more that people disclose what they have suffered, the more chance there is that others will be relieved of the terrible psychological toll it is to keep their secrets underground, where they cause pathological guilt and depression and anxiety.
I’ve got several problems with MacKenzie Phillips’ allegations, however.
First, I think it does no service to rape victims or victims of incest to suggest that father-daughter sex that begins at age 19 is “consensual.” If Ms. Phillips is telling the truth (more about this later), then I would venture that the psychological gears behind her sexual relationship with her father began turning much earlier in her life, very likely when she was a young girl. After all, Ms. Phillips also alleges that her father humiliated her in front of his famous friends by commenting on the way her body was changing during puberty. No doubt, that was the tip of the iceberg.
Many of my patients who suffer greatly from sexual boundary violations by their parents, in fact, never slept with their fathers or mothers. They were aware, however, that the potential for sexual contact was very real, as evidenced by inappropriate touching, joking or gazing.
My second problem with Ms. Phillips accusing her father of raping her and then having sex with her for a decade is that her father is dead. He can’t refute the charges. That seems awfully convenient.
My third problem with Ms. Phillips labeling her father a sexual predator is that she offers no corroborating evidence. None. There are no psychiatry records noted to support her claim. She doesn’t come armed with three polygraphs that, flawed as they are, suggest she is telling the truth. There are no ER records showing vaginal trauma from her “rape.” There’s no one else on the face of the planet yet to come forward and confirm that John Phillips was a monster.
My fourth problem with Ms. Phillips is that she has lied to the media before—to get on television and become more famous. Years ago, she told Geraldo Rivera she had quit drugs so she could tout her sobriety to the nation. She was still using.
My fifth problem with Ms. Phillips is that she was hooked on heroin and cocaine and other drugs, to begin with. While I understand that drug abuse and dependence is an illness, I also know from treating over a thousand patients with the disorder that those with a predisposition to drug dependence are also predisposed to make up stories for their own benefit—in this case money and fame. They aren’t reliable witnesses in court cases and they shouldn’t be seen as reliable reporters of fact in any venue.
That brings up my sixth problem with Ms. Phillips. Her claims are neatly timed to sell books. She found herself on Oprah making her allegations, not in an auditorium talking to survivors of sexual assault. Millions of dollars may flow her way because she says she slept with her father for a decade.
So, we’ve got a drug addict who has lied to the media before, who now says that she’s telling an incredibly gripping tale, who also stands to make a fortune from it. You add up the numbers.
Bottom line: When people paint their parents as monsters, they ought to have the strength of character to do it when their parents are on the planet to respond.
I wouldn’t suggest anyone with real and genuine trauma spend a lot of time pondering MacKenzie Phillips’ packaged, media-friendly, mass market, convenient, dramatic, televised, titillating version.
Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatry correspondent for FOX News Channel and a New York Times bestselling author. His book, “Living the Truth: Transform Your Life through the Power of Insight and Honesty” has launched a new self-help movement including www.livingthetruth.com. Dr. Ablow can be emailed at info@keithablow.com.
Tags: consensual sex, incest, John Phillips, MacKenzie Phillips, Mamas and the Papas, Oprah Winfrey, rape
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I spent 14 years investigating allegations of child abuse and neglect, and I would love to talk to Ms. Phillips. I’m sure you know that the older a person is when they first disclose the less likely they are telling the truth. If there is no disclosure to anyone by age 16, the probability of the story being truth drops to less that sixty percent. And the true victims do not go on Oprah. They are ashamed, embarrassed, and feel guilty. They don’t spout out details as though they are giving directions to Macy’s.
On another subject, detachment. I’m seeing some detachment issues in Obama, and I find this very disturbing. Karl Rove mentioned today that O is so detached that he seems to talk randomly to people about Afghanistan. Look at his family interaction, going back to the pictures of his grandmother. Also, O seems to feel no qualms about telling people what they want to hear, then the next person something different, and on it goes. He doesn’t seem to have a sense of who he is, so he switches. When he gets into trouble, he says, “Let me make myself perfectly clear,” then doesn’t because he contradicts previous things he “made clear”. And, as a last resort, he either flashes a superficial smile or uses the immature pointing of both index fingers, like the college kids do. Not so presidential. Very disturbing. I believe Karl Rove, Sean Hannity, and Chris Wallace have picked up on this, also, as well as countless others.
I think that’s a sad story either way you look at it. Child abuse is a terrible, terrible crime and it saddens me to hear of it with Miss Phillips.
Well Dr. Ablow, I suppose if you went through a trauma like that, you would have the good sense to have a more textbook response. Arrogant ass.
Dr. Keith hasn’t actually conversed with Ms. Phillips, and has no knowledge of the case, other than what the rest of us have received through the media, so when he makes his statements casting doubt on Ms. Phillips’ story, he’s doing so based on hearsay. He’s free to doubt her story, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that because he puts “Dr.” in front of his name that he’s privey to details of this case that we aren’t. If it took her father’s death to finally make it possible for her to admit to incest, Dr. Keith’s assertion that she waited too long to tell the tale is irrelevant. She waited until her father was dead, and wouldn’t be prosecuted. Her sister has said that MacKenzie told her about the incest ten years ago, but that’s not in Dr. Keith’s story. Lying about taking drugs, and lying about parental incest are two different issues. Dr. Keith suggests that because she lied about taking drugs, she’s probably lying about the incest. Maybe.
I do think that Dr. Keith’s assertion that she’s lying to sell books is a bit hypocritical, given that Dr. Keith’s book is being hawked in the sub-text of this article…!
Wow. Dr. Ablow, are you a robot? I think considering that her own father gave her drugs when she was a young girl, and taught her himself how to shoot up so that she could become a drug addict like him is in fact the tip of that iceberg you speak of. That’s who my heart goes out to–that young girl, who had an idiot for a father, and apparently a bunch of other “adults” around her who didn’t have a clue about what was right and what was wrong. She’s an extremely damaged person and needs help. The sexual relationship may or may not have happened. If it did, I am not surprised. If it didn’t and she’s lying, I am also not surprised. In any case, her father created a cycle of abuse (in many forms) and we are seeing the consequences. The things she is saying, true or not, he deserves.
Something stinks with her story…she’s a down and out has been actress with a drug problem and probably needs the attention to make more money to support her drug habits… so lets drag daddy down her miserable lane. The man is dead and cannot defend himself…she should have left this one alone.
Mrs. J. “Trust but verify” is a good dictum to go by. If Ms. Phillips did indeed undergo the trauma she claims then she is deserving of sympathy and, if needed or desired, help. However Dr. Ablow makes good points, there is secondary gain in making this allegation for Ms. Phillips, and there is no longer any way of obtaining her father’s side of the story. I think it is absolutely appropriate, ad hominem attacks on Dr. Ablow’s character aside, to question such a serious allegation when the accused has no way of defending himself.
I feel sad for Ms Phillips either way….if this tragedy is real she is a victim. If she is “making it up” then she has even more serious problems. Sorry situation no matter how you look at it.
This is the first article of Dr. Ablows that I have read and truly felt repulsed by. I have agreed w/ most. This is beyond harsh. These are certainly words of someone who has never been through anything like what Ms. Phillips is claiming. I agree with Mrs. H. Her own father is who shot her up at what..age 9? I think that, even though he’s passed on and can’t ‘defend himself’ it is pretty obvious what kind of person he was. He created Mackenzie to be what she has become, whether her claims are true or not. I hope and pray that she is able to learn to live a new life not dictated to her by him. The comment by Helen is equally disturbing. What you seem to be saying is that as a CHILD…if I had had more guts and been able to come forward when I was 8 or 9 instead of being 12, well then my case would’ve been more plausible. By age 16 yrs!?? Really? That’s just a kid! You have very obviously never been a victim or know the kind of fear that paralyzes one or the mind games and manipulation that control one. You certainly are controlled by something though. My final thought: what good thing came out of this article? Does Dr Ablow really think that Phillips will read it and suddenly ‘come clean’? Did it help her? Did it help any of us? Who does it help? It may sound harsh, but for the very first time, I am reluctantly saying that the only person it may help at all, is Dr. Ablow. =(
A tough topic but fair comment from Ablow.
Without trying to be judgmental towards the “victim”, it seems odd to me that she would come forward now. Why not when she had our attention before when she went “sober”? This all happened long ago, so why now, and why on Oprah?
As a Grandma with a few years under her belt – I kinda know when one of the grans is telling me a whopper. Maybe it’s true for this Dr. as well – his experience has allowed him to be detached enough to make this judgment.
In any case I agree – I feel sorry for her if it’s real, and if it’s not. Messed up life leading nowhere.
I also thought her story was very conveniently timed, glad to know I wasn’t the only one.
Right on, she’s not to be trusted.
I very much have to disagree with the statement that the older you are the more likely you are not telling the truth. I am a 59 year old woman who was molested when I was 11 by my stepfather. It has just been in the last 6 years that I have been able to talk of the incident. It is not totally public because I feel that I need to protect my mother. They are both still alive and I would like to see him pay for what he did to me but is it worth the pain it would cause her? I still feel great confusion.
I have to take issue with Dr. Albow (and some of the commenters here) on several matters….
1. John Phillips began dating his second wife, Michelle Phillips when she was only 16 (or maybe 15) and he was in his mid-20’s. Ick.
2. Yes, Mackenzie Phillips is selling a book, but why shouldn’t she? People have gone to market with life stories much worse and more far-fetched than this.
3. Helen, I would like to know how Ms. Phillips could have reported this prior to age 16 (the age at which you claim a victim becomes far less credible) when it didn’t happen until she was 19. And when you say victims don’t go on Oprah, but are rather “ashamed, embarrassed and feel guilty” — I must strongly disagree. At some point in the process of recovering from abuse or incest, the victim MUST stop feeling ashamed, embarrassed and guilty. And they want to shout from the highest mountain that they SURVIVED this horrible experience. If that highest mountain is the Oprah show, then so be it. Helen, you are full of it. You too, Dr. Albow.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DR. ABLOW. SHE CLAIMS TO BEING RAPED BY HER FATHER AT AGE 19. SO WHAT DOES SHE DO WITH THAT BUT CONTINUE TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM FOR ANOTHER 10 YEARS. THIS IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS STORY. I DO AGREE SHE HAS SOME SERIOUS MENTAL ISSUES AND THAT MONEY IS HER MOTIVATOR. I WAS A VICTIM OF INCEST (AS A CHILD) AND IT TOOK MANY YEARS TO TALK ABOUT IT TO VERY VERY CLOSE PEOPLE AND THROUGH THERAPY. SHE WAS ON LARRY KING AND TRIED SO HARD TO ACT EMOTIONAL BUT IT DID NOT WORK FOR ME. SHE NEEDS SOME SERIOUS HELP BUT NOT FOR INCEST (THAT SHE CLAIMS) BUT FOR SOME SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. YES SHE WILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY BY HER CLAIMS BUT SHE ALSO HAS TO LIVE WITH HER LIES. MAYBE SHE CAN JUSTIFY THAT IN HER SICK HEAD!!! ALSO SHE GOES ON CELEBRITY REHAB FOR HER ADDICTION. COME ON GUYS – SHE’S A JOKE. MCKENZIE GET SOME HELP FOR YOUR REAL MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS. YOU NEED IT.
I think all these attacks on Dr. Ablow and MacKenzie Phillips both, are just plain silly.
How are we to know what really happened to Mackenzie? How are we to know that Dr. Ablow doesn’t have some kind of bullsh*t detector running on high, considering he’s talked with so very many people who have been through Hell during their childhood, and either turned out to be just extremely damaged people, or full-blown Sociopaths?
Dr. Ablow may well be totally correct about this situation–he really *is* good at spotting deceit–but, also, it might be way more complex than all that. I have no idea…
This is a very thought-provoking post, and I loved “Shaysnana’s” response!
Even if Mackenzie isn’t telling the truth, I still feel really bad for her…
To Helen,
Well, then I’m certainly glad I didn’t have you “investigating” my abuse case. I didn’t discuss it with anyone until I was well past the age of 40. How can you unilaterally say that if a child doesn’t discuss it before 16 then it’s probably a lie? Do you have any idea the level of shame and the sense of guilt that accompanies incest? And yes, it was over 20 years since the abuser, my father, had died. Did I wait that long to talk so he couldn’t defend himself? No. It took me that long to realize it wasn’t MY fault. It took me that long to understand I was a victimized child.
To Dr. Ablow,
Incest/rape victims frequently become alcohol and substance abusers. And yes, abusers often lie (including sexual abusers). But does being addicted to a substance mean that a rape didn’t occur? This is the kind of thinking that goes along the lines of how people think if a prostitute says they are raped. And I say to you the same thing I did to Helen. Opening up about incest after the violator is deceased does NOT mean it’s a lie. Did it ever occur to you it may be the only time a victim feels that can feel safe enough to finally discuss it?
Is McKenzie telling the truth? I don’t know. But vilifying the victim of incest or rape is EXACTLY why people who’ve experienced it don’t come forward.
As a Psychiatric provider, I do concur with may of your obsevatons. Unfortunately, the real tragedy for incest victims is the fact that they fail to come forward early because, “No one will support or believe me, anyway.” And, this is predominately the truth about sexual abuse, especially when it is incest; family members are frequesntly not supportive of the victims. If the woman is fabricating the story then she will not benefit from therapy to target past experiences, but it only hurts other victims in claiming she is lying. The allegation that she is doing this for secondary gain will only further re-inforce other victims fears. Finally, it is not at all unusual for a victim to wait until the perpetrator is dead before coming forward and seeking treatment. The death of the perpetrator finally makes the victim safe from hthe perpetrators tyranny. Oh, and how many perpetrators confess to their actions? Few if any….
Pracperf,
Thank you for your post. You validated exactly what I was trying to say in my post.
Four hours later, I am still sickened by Dr. Ablows comments. Outraged. Here you are, a physician on Fox News with the potential to do so much good.
Who the hell was I going to talk to at the age of five? Do you really have any understanding, whatsoever, about the psychological dynamics with incest? The fear of what you think might happen if you “tell”?
As I said before, it is exactly THIS KIND of vilification of incest victims that have kept us from coming forward.
I did come out at 16 regarding my abuse to my therapist. He promptly picked up the phone and called my father, who was also my abuser! I almost died that night from the beating and horrible rape that I suffered. I am now 42 with the most awesome husband in the world! He has been my confidant and helped me realize that I was never at fault. Mental Health professionals do nothing more than guess most of the time anyway. I have never and would never waste my time seeing one!
What I can’t understand is why there are no tears or even the slightest hint of sadness coming from a woman who was supposedly raped and abused by a man she should have been able to trust? No signs at all of embarrassment. She is so obviously milking this for all it’s worth. It is as if she couldn’t wait for her Dad to pass on so she could have her 2nd chance at fame & fortune. Wonder what she’ll say about the rest of her family if they (heaven forbid) go before her??? Ms.Phillips is not crying..she is smiling through this all the way…all the way to the bank that is.
I’m sorry but I don’t believe McKenzie’s story at all. She was not a little child when this happened. Remember, she was 19 and getting married the next day. She continued having sex with him for the next 10 years. Was this grown (married) woman afraid to tell her father no? I may have given her story a bit more credibility if she were younger and alone and not trying to sell a book. I do feel sorry for her as I feel she may actually believe her own lies. She is an addict looking to make a fast buck. We see this behavior in addicts all the time. Also, to get help with her addiction she seeks a reality rehab show as the direction to go in. I think she is in need of some extensive therapy for her addiction and severe mental health issues.
I dont believe her claims re: her father. If it were true, why didnt she come out with that too, back when she was doing the talk show circuit about her drug use and banging Mick Jagger. Even now, she talks about this Mick Jagger thing with a sense of pride, not shame….makes one wonder.
I don’t know that Ms. Phillips needs psychiatric records to speak to her abuse. And I would bet it all began long before she was 19 in some manner or another (her father giving her drugs says it all). Years of drug abuse alone suggest SOMETHING was wrong in her head. I work with the drug addicts in the worst of circumstances: homeless, hopeless, feeling helpless. Most of them began their abuse to hide pain. Many to hide the pain of abuse. Some have told nobody of the abuse until they felt they were in a safe place, and many were in their forties.
To Helen who “researches” this, I didn’t tell anyone of my sexual abuse by my father until I was in my thirties. I didn’t feel safe about it until then. Sure, I was in and out of psych hospitals for years from the age of 19, but never told anyone the real reason until I was older. People who have not actually been through this will never really understand how it makes you feel utterly powerless.
And I have told people publicly, in testimony to other victims and to give people hope in general, but I will never directly accuse my father while he is alive. He will deny it, just like he did the affair he had until my mother caught him in bed with the other woman, just like he denies everything.
I can just see if John Phillips were still alive. I can just hear him say, ‘Oh, yeah, I raped her until she decided over a period if years that she liked it.” Right… What does the ability for him to answer for it tell us? NOTHING!
I believe it could have happened. Take a 14 year old girl from a broken home, move her to Hollywood, spending her impressionable teen years on a hit TV show, with more money than she ever dreamed possible. The insane 70’s world of drugs, sex and rock bands, with her own father flying as high as one could get at the time. It is very plausible this man who was supposed to protect her, saw her instead as just another member of his entourage, another conquest. Heroin and coke created the environment that first time, and continued to during the years of one blackout after another, when she was a member of his band, the Mamas & Papas, after Michelle left. Hopeless addict and shell of human being that she had become by age 29, she seems to have managed some clarity when she got pregnant, enough to pull away from the sick environment, and limp away as best she could. What a tragedy, a sad & very probably true story of “life in the fast lane.”
I wonder how the above lady managed to tie Obama into this topic? People manage to pull him into any and every conversation that is negative. What does he have to to with this topic? When you said your sources are hannity and rove etc. you lost all creditibilty at that point and I quit listening.